Gifted for Leadership: Surprised by the 'Old Guard'

back to Kyria.com

RSS Feed | Help

e-mail to a friend

who we are

Marian Liautaud

Nicole Unice

Jenni Catron

Beatrice Rusu

more ...

Free Newsletters

top downloads

on Kyria.com

« Developing a Business Plan and Strategy | Main | Ethnic Blends »

August 6, 2008

Surprised by the 'Old Guard'

by by Shayne Moore

As the daughter of academics I was encouraged to be a free-thinker, especially when it came to God. My parents were not afraid of questions because their faith was so strong in the One who gives answers. Yet I lived (and still do) a paradoxical life: A home life of free-thinking and free-discussion amongst a community of "don't rock the boaters" - the Old Guard of evangelical tradition.

Amidst the Old Guard of evangelicalism, when I came out of Wheaton College in 1992, there was a group who left appreciating our evangelical roots, and willing to think bigger. One of my friends became the religious editor for the Chicago Sun Times. Another friend founded a church. It grew to over 10,000 people assembling each Sunday in less than a year - and is still going strong. This friend also started a not-for-profit, making short films with this ?new' take on Christianity. As a woman with leadership skills and a call to ministry this new direction for evangelicalism was very exciting.

A scholar, Bob Webber, (colleague of my father and dad of my best friend) would write books about this new emerging form of evangelicalism in his books such as Ancient-Future Faith and The Younger Evangelicals. All this movement in my tradition resonated deep within me. I read Brian McLaren's books A New Kind of Christian and The Story We Find Ourselves In. I gobbled them up, along with the ideologies of the Emerging Church movement. Here were people putting words on what my spirit already knew. It explained why I felt like a fish out of water in my own tradition. It explained why now when I stood in a group of people discussing our faith it sounded as if they were speaking a foreign language. Without knowing it, I had started through that narrow passage that leads from one paradigm to another.

Then this paradigm shift got scary and painful. One author describes it as a "post-modern free fall." I found myself disoriented and confused by the different voices around me. Bob Webber finally left Wheaton and went to teach at Northern Baptist Seminary. Friends who went to college with Rob Bell and me started accusing him of teaching heresy. Brian McLaren and the Emerging Church movement were mocked and discredited. Yet these were my models. These were the voices amidst all the opinions that rang true.

So I did what I had to do. I took a deep breathe and pushed further into that cramped passageway. It hurt, and I'm sure I didn't make any friends and certainly lost some while I cried, whined, complained, and raged along the way. I was vocal with my opinions of social advocacy, respect of the creation, and particularly women in positions of authority within the church.

I lost the respect of people whose opinions I valued. My journey felt so honest and this loss of favor was confusing and hurtful. When asking sincere questions regarding the issue of women in authority the attitudes and comments I received burned the very skin of my soul. I felt the community around me was trying to beat me into submission. I went to the only place I could - deeper into that narrow passage and deeper into myself.

I had to. Eventually my models also fell away. I was disillusioned. I fell into a depression. Feeling alone and wondering what had I been doing? Why was I alienating myself? Was this paradigm shift real? What voices should I shut out? Whose should I embrace? The culture shock in my marriage was at a breaking point. This patriarchal model of church, life, and marriage was no longer working for me. I had changed so much and there was no going back.

And then it happened. While wrestling with my faith-tradition and my own sinful character traits (inherited from my faith tradition - pride, arrogance, short-sightedness, savior-mentality) I broke through to the other side and found myself in a place of spacious freedom.

I was finally comfortable in my own skin. My worth and authority was no longer bound up in the opinions of others. And my concepts of God and of myself were free to form within me. This new freedom of self also freed those around me. And a kinder, softer Shayne was born.

Today I live and move and have my being in the faith tradition of my youth. The pain and negativity has been replaced with gratitude and peace. Today when I am reminded the Old Guard still stands at the church doors keeping women out of leadership I find myself surprised, but not angry. In this place of spacious freedom, in this place deep within me, is the knowledge that I am a daughter of the King of Kings. All authority, my authority, comes from him. He will place me where he wants me and no man (or tradition) can stop him.

Comments

I see great pain and frustration in seminary women students who sense God's calling to ministry leadership but who cannot flourish due to highly effective gatekeepers. Sometimes my assessment is, sadly and all too often, that a move to a new place to serve where her creative thinking and leadership gifts will be valued would be appropriate. I am blessed to be a part of a seminary (Biblical Seminary in Surburban Phila.) which seeks to be a bridge builder and to serve as a place where women who have been called to vocational ministry can thrive.

Thank you. While my journey has been different and I am still exploring some of the options you moved through, I too understood your being encouraged to be a free-thinker and not to be afraid to use your mind to discover the world. I too understood your desire to be all that God had created you to be even if that meant being a leader. Thank you for sharing a bit of your journey. You were an encouragement and provided hope that I too can find peace.

In Christ,
Diane

I believe this is the kind of article that needs to be read by groups of people and then talked through over huge mugs of coffee. It requires thoughtful debate and, more importantly, the willingness to ask the forbidden questions.

My God ... how did we get here? How have we gotten to the point in our faith and culture where there seems to be such a tragic disparity between the lives we live and the Jesus we love?

I desire to understand the events that prompted you to write, "And then it happened." I'm sure they're deeply personal; forgive my curiosity. But there are so many of us out here that feel disillusioned by the church, its functions and its disconnect. We float on faith, but find it difficult to anchor. We too want to break free. We just can't figure out, exactly, how to do that.

Thank you for your transparency in the struggle. I hope this opens many conversational doors.

I understand the pain expressed in this article. But why does this journey so often lead down a path that seems to minimize the word.
So often you read statements like "And my concepts of God and of myself were free to form within me."
The Word is not the problem. It is the solution.
I am not advocating "the old guard's" tradition. But at what point do our own concepts cease to be Christian?

Thank you for your article Shayne. I can identify with so much of what you have experienced in regard to your faith journey. I am personally dissatisfied with the way most evangelical churches carry out the church routine every Sunday morning at 10am...and they have fashioned it to become an unfulfilling routine (because there are fulfilling routines---such as daily prayer)...I believe true worship has been replaced with entertainment and emphasis on "community."

I like to compare how easy it is to enter a Catholic church compared to entering a typical evangelical church. I'm not comparing faiths, I'm comparing style of worship. Enter any Catholic church and you experience quietness and prayer. It is not uncommon to see many people sitting by themselves. Everybody doesn't know everyone else and they don't have to any more so than you don't have to know every person in your city. Enter an evangelical church and you experience noise, people hurrying up to try to welcome you and thank you for attending "their" church and of course, depending on the size of the church, many people checking to see who the new comer is sitting by themselves (the ultimate reason many young single people find it hard to go to a church service...it is so hard to sit by yourself in a "community" of people...don't believe me? Read Camerin Courtney's articles on this very website).

I fully believe in asking all and any questions that come to mind (God gave you your mind). I think it is a shame if anyone, anywhere would try to silence the question or the person asking the question. I will say this however, and I hope you understand where I'm coming from. Sometimes we may not like the answer we receive about say...women in leadership at church or another popular topic...homosexuality. Now, if it is a scripture based answer and you test the spirit of the person giving you the answer...by testing the spirit I mean you have to be indwelled with the Holy Spirit yourself first...then you pray, fast, and meditate on the answer from God...you may not like the answer, but it is still an answer.

I am a male, early 30s, I'm not the old guard. I respect women. I have had many women as bosses, some very good, some not so good, just like everything else. I cannot explain the theology or sociology behind this but I will share my experience. I listen to sermons on Moody radio a lot. I love listening to many programs, those directed by women as well as men. There is a difference between listening to a Christian radio program and a Christian sermon. I don't value the programs hosted by men as better or more sanctified than those hosted by women. They are all in the same category. The Christian sermons on the other hand have all been delivered by men (all the ones I've heard). This is going to sound sexist in human terms, but it is sex-different in God terms. God made the sexes different for a reason. He wired us differently. Here's what I cannot explain theologically...when a man preaches the word of God, something inside me responds to the Word coming from him...God uses the man this way. I do not respond the same way when a woman preaches. It is not that I have any defenses up...I simply don't respond the same way. She may be preaching the Word, and yes, you could argue that we should respond to the Word, not the person, but God doesn't seem to use the woman vessel for the same purpose as the man vessel. He doesn't use all the male vessels the same way either. Not all men are called to be preachers. If you're a man and you're not called by God, you will be an empty vessel preaching your lungs out with no power. The power comes from God alone.

The prime example of the difference in design...men can't have babies. You want to ask God that question? Go ahead, God...why can't I as a man have babies? I mean, I am your servant, I can bring glory to your name, I am just as good as a woman aren't I? Why won't you honor me with the privilege to bring children into this world through my womb? May I have a womb...please? Why not God? Why?

I know some old guard evangelicals would laugh and try to silence such a "stupid" question...but I say ask away. But at some point, I have to straighten up in my talk with God, by straightening up I simply mean removing all human defenses...sexism, humanism, political correctness...stripping yourself naked before God and entering his presence in your spirit and asking for that peace that surpasses all understanding. Peace can come from wisdom...from a deep understanding of God's purpose, intention, and his design for the world, both the natural and the man-made, but most importantly, his design for man, which includes the male and female forms he created...differently, for different purposes, but both for His glory. Amen?

Her experience sounds like many of those expressed by the Gen X. I think the issue is more of "self-centeredness" than gender. I am especially troubled by the statement "And my concepts of God and of myself were free to form within me." God has revealed to us who He is. The Bible tells us who God is. When we form our own concept of God, we become the creator and God becomes the creature. Then we have confusions, struggles and even dissensions. I would like to see more reference to what the Bible says about the issues than just personal views.

Before someone thinks I am of the old guard, I am an immigrant and a minority in the American society. Instead of focusing on the "problems" or "issues", God has taught me to focus on Him. I appreciate the tradition, because it tells us the history which repeats itself. In order to know the present, we have to know the past.

Amen Bob. Amen. Though I will say this: I have heard women say things, in different settings, under different circumstances, that have shaken me to my core. Sometimes moreso than a preacher. Their secret? They embody the Proverbs 31 woman, who has a quiet and gentle spirit. I'm not saying women shouldn't talk; there's a difference between quiet and silent. But when I see a woman in that position, even though she has a quiet and still spirit, I can't help but listen. Something about her spirit resonates with me, and in those moments God has changed me. Just something to think about...

Of course women and men are both told by God to serve others. However it makes me really nervous when someone demands or expects that God should use “Me.” It makes me nervous when someone thinks that they have answers that others need to hear. It makes me nervous when people seem to, well, push themselves forward because they believe they have what other people need. Maybe you are gifted by God. Maybe you have skills and talents that no one else in your congregation can match. Often, and I mean very often, that congregation will be more blessed by that person following God’s lead in humbly and quietly listening rather than going against God and lavishing h/his gifts on all who are present.

My thanks to Bob Smith for expressing his thoughts so respectfully and kindly. You and I would have differing thoughts on this issue, but rarely is this kind of discussion so civil.

May I respond with the same respect? I have been a full-time pastor in a Pentecostal church for nearly 15 years. I have preached many, many sermons, with specific responses from both men and women, sometimes repeated years after the initial sermon, of how the message resonated with them and led to long-term life change. I am grateful for that feedback.

And to Shayne - excellent article. Thanks for it. I have a "and then it happened" moment too, commemorated by a rock that sits on my desk.

The Bible is a text. As such, it must be read and interpreted: put through the filter of our brains. When someone reads the Bible their mind is not a blank slate; their background, prejudices and mood all affect their interpretation. Who hasn't read the Bible and come to a conclusion regarding the meaning of the passage, only to be "corrected" later by a friend, pastor, or theologian? I daresay there are as many versions of God (consisting of opinions about what God prefers, thinks, or wants) as there are believers. Concepts of God based on the reading of a text are just that--concepts. They aren't the same as the Real Thing. And He hasn't shown up in 2,000 years.

In response to reading the article and everyone's comments, I would like to say I appreciate how civil and courteous everyone has been. I hope you will be able to read my words with the same Christian love they are intended to express.
When I saw the title, Old Guard, I was hoping to read something about congregations/faith communities and the inability of some long-time members to embrace change through worship and or pastoral leadership. However, the topic of gender specific leadership being a 'bone of contention' certainly can and does play in to the changes church is experiencing and I value these perspectives. I would like to hear from others about the specific topic that I believe is less gender specific, but may indeed play in the perspective of people leading and changing things. As we live into this 21st century and bring new ideas, concepts, and learnings leading us to broader, fuller, deeper understandings of our God, Lord, Spiritual leader, how behave as Christians living out the Jesus concept of love, (God first, our brothers and sisters as ourselves, enemies, and "just love one another") is stretching our patience, our stabilities, and our tolerance.
It has been my experience that leadership is a challenge and an especially diffcult prospect for religious leaders today. Whether male or female, there seems to a generous population that wants to 'hang on to what they have, know, want or desire' irregardless of what God may be speaking through our spiritual leaders serving around the country. These beautiful, loving, Christian well-meaning people seem too concerned about themselves, demonstrating fearfulness in losing something they believe they 'own'. "This just isn't my church anymore", "I want things back to the way they were," or even "I am going to look for another church". It would appear that these people are mostly interested in manipulating the pastor and not paying attention to their own spiritual formation or faith development. Somehow they do miss hearing the I and ME so ingrained in their fight to preserve the 'already'. Sound familiar?
Does anyone have suggestions for helping pastors' and the people in church leadership move forward to thinking more about their relationship with the Divine rather than what, "I need in worship?" I have read many books on worship, including the research by the Barna group. Most people are not able to define worship without the I and Me as a priority. Many people shy away from the spiritual aspect. Many people claim to want change but will not be part of it. I find it so discouraging to see a pastor (male or female)try to lead only to become frustrated, stressed, or so burnt out they leave the congregation, even the denomination, or too, the religious to servive.
It would seem to me that the discernment of God's movement being spiritual, worship and all functions of a church/community of faith might consider welcoming the syngerestic energy and joyous jubliation of pastoral leaders. Where have all the Christian sojourners gone? Where is the patience and love for the DIVINE hiding? Are we to find it only in our own personal private journies?
Oh, yes, I forgot, even Jesus wasn't believed equally by all his disciples. Even Jesus had to rely on those who came after him to process the fullness of his message, "GOD IS LOVE".
Thank you for reading and letting me spout off. Maybe I am the one who needs to regain some patience. Pray for me.

Joy and peace to you all.

This is so true of my journey also . Just wanted to say thank-you!!

That was beautiful.

Mine too... thank you.

Hi Shayne,

Thanks so much for your comprehensive wisdom concerning this issue. For many of us it has been a long journey with defining moment sprinkled along the way. Ultimately, we become who we know ourselves to be, whether that is the truth or not.

I was interested in what Bob Smith had to say. Of course, no matter how much he feels that he is not a part of the old guard, it isn't about the old guard. It's about whether you allow people you may not be able to identify with, hear from God and live for Him, regardless of whether we understand it or not.

I'm a senior leader of a movement which I have been a part of developing. God used me, along with my husband, to develop a movement which includes churches, bible college, various enterprises and a ministry to children with AIDs in Uganda. Had I not played my part in this, it would not have happened. It was a partnership between two people that God put together.

In the end, each one of us has to do what we believe God is calling us to, and others may pontificate on our choices all they like, but they aren't responsible... we are.

Bev Murrill

I read Shayne's story shortly after it was first published here. I would like to share the my response to it:

I read an article at ChristianityToday.com this week that surprised me. The author’s struggle was with an entirely different subject than mine, but the process she went through really captured my attention.

The author, Shayne Moore, describes her upbringing and education in an environment that encouraged her to think for herself, to consider God and His word, and pursue what she found, “amongst a community of 'don’t rock the boaters'-the Old Guard of evangelical tradition”.

What she found in pursuing God did not fit into the prescription of the “Old Guard”. At times she found herself under condemnation, from herself as well as others, as she continued to pursue what she believed the Spirit was calling her to.

Her description of moving from the paradigm of her childhood and youth, into the one God was drawing her to, really caught me. It was as if someone had dipped a ladle into my mind and drawn out the expression of my struggle.

Shayne says “I read Brian McLaren’s books A New Kind of Christian and The Story We Find Ourselves In. I gobbled them up, along with the ideologies of the Emerging Church movement. Here were people putting words on what my spirit already knew. It explained why I felt like a fish out of water in my own tradition. It explained why now when I stood in a group of people discussing our faith it sounded as if they were speaking a foreign language. Without knowing it, I had started through that narrow passage that leads from one paradigm to another” (emphasis mine).

But my struggle, my confusion and perplexity, is due to grace. What the reality of the nature of grace is. What it means in a very real, concrete way in my life.

Change the authors to Steve McVey, Paul Anderson Walsh, Norman Grubb, and others. Change the movement to that of union life, or one of several other labels. With these, her thoughts are my exact thoughts over the last few months.

I’m struggling. Or perhaps as a group of friends suggested, I’m wrestling. Wrestling with what I thought was the teaching of truth. Wrestling with what God’s Spirit is revealing to my spirit. Fighting to figure out how it works in my life. Struggling, because I know it is true, but it is turning much of my world inside out.

I came from reading another article recently. My wife, Annie, said I seemed confused. And when she asked me about it, I couldn’t even express what was bothering me. I was confused about what I was confused about! And Annie reminded me that confusion wasn’t from God. And that’s true. But when I’m moving from a place of not truth, to a place of truth, the puzzlement is still there. Not from God, but because of trying to shake off the not truth.

Shayne goes on to describe “Then this paradigm shift got scary and painful . . . I found myself disoriented and confused by the different voices around me . . . So I did what I had to do. I took a deep breathe and pushed further into that cramped passageway. It hurt, and I’m sure I didn’t make any friends and certainly lost some while I cried, whined, complained, and raged along the way . . . I lost the respect of people whose opinions I valued. My journey felt so honest and this loss of favor was confusing and hurtful . . . Was this paradigm shift real . . . This patriarchal model of church, life, and marriage was no longer working for me . . . I had changed so much and there was no going back.”

Shayne’s report indicates she found peace in the end (or at a point- I don’t know that the process ends). I trust God that I will as well. I’m not there now. Much of my life is in turmoil. There are very few places that I can honestly say I find peace at the moment. There are far more voices that conflict with what I hear from God, than those that confirm.

This is where I am, and my words don’t express even to myself, how much of a struggle this is. In many ways I feel cut off from many of the people that are closest to me. But I am convinced that what God is revealing to me is true. Going back is not an option.

You need struggle no more!!!!!! I have the answer. The answer is the Word of God.
The Word of God will bring clarity to you.
The reality of the gospel is that its not people in whom we believe, but the Lord and his Word. God's word has the answers.
2 Timothy 3:16 (King James Version)

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Stand on the word and not men's opinions of the word of God!

"Stand on the word and not men's opinions of the word of God!"

Would that include men's interpretation of Hebrew & Greek?

Kyria's Gifted for Leadership

categories

who we are

Free Newsletters

top downloads

on Kyria.com

Surprised by the 'Old Guard'

Comments

recent posts

Archives

resources

Kyria's Gifted for Leadership

categories

who we are

Free Newsletters

top downloads

on Kyria.com

Surprised by the 'Old Guard'

Comments

recent posts

Tags

Archives

resources