Kyria's Gifted for Leadership

Comments

Caryn,

I am so sad and sorry about your friend Bob.

I am also sad Bob has not met enough loving and caring Christians. I would welcome the opportunity to pour love on him. Perhaps we can all ban together and shower he and his friends with the same grace, mercy and love our Lord has shown us.

I pray you can continue to befriend people whose lifestyles and values might be different from your own.

Bea

Posted By: Bea Wray | October 29, 2008 6:41 AM

Wow. Caryn, I am so sorry. I can't imagine how painful that must have been for you. I've had some similar experiences with Facebook (not quite as severe as what you dealt with with your friend). It's really brought to light, for me, the true double standard that lies behind all the so-called talk of "open-mindedness." The secular world says they want a woman in office, but just not "that" woman (Palin). I, too, am often surprised by the hatred that spews forth from the mouths of those who profess that what we really need to do is just love and accept one another. Indeed we do.

Posted By: Angela | October 29, 2008 9:01 AM

A whole lot can be said here. Matthew 5:11,12 should suffice.

Posted By: will s | October 29, 2008 9:26 AM

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your friend - especially after just finding him again. What a roller coaster!

I had this happen with a friend of mine who is Jewish. After being very close friends all through college, he basically imagined that I held views I do not and took offense to offhand comments made years prior. And then he un-friended me in real life.

It hurts so badly to lose a friend that way. I'm sorry for your loss and mine - but I'm thankful for the lesson and reminder about misplaced anger and loving each other.

Posted By: Mary | October 29, 2008 9:46 AM

I am one of those gay people who have "unfriended" people who are devout.

You need to reclaim your religion from fanatics. You've allowed "christians" to co-opt Christianity for their own personal gain and you've allowed them to hurt people in the name of God. Take God back.

Posted By: Scott | October 29, 2008 3:10 PM

That is very sad Caryn. It's unfortunate that your friend can't see the big picture. Your political affiliation has nothing to do with who you are as person or your friendship. The fact that he is gay is not the issue. It's his attitude. He obviously has issues and it's his loss that he can't appreciate your friendship, embrace your differences and make light of the situation. Hopefully, he will come to his senses and when he does you will be there to forgive and forget. Great article! :-)

Blessings to you and all the ladies on this blog.

Posted By: Linda | October 29, 2008 5:26 PM

This is sad--for both of you. In some ways, I think Scott is right. The most vocal Christians are too often the most unkind and damaging. Those of us who put love first need to be louder and stronger. It's not your fault that other people who claim your faith have hurt Bob. But I, too, am tired of having to first overcome the damage done by others before I can even begin to talk about my faith with someone. Those other voices are powerful and they know how to grab the spotlight. But the love of Christ will always win out. We need to believe that and not let ourselves be pushed back by those who co-opt the faith for purposes of hate and oppression. If I may quote Lenny Kravitz, we've got to let love rule. Perfect love casts out fear. I hope that there will be a day when Bob is open to that kind of love from friends like you.

Posted By: Carla | October 29, 2008 5:49 PM

I agree with Scott: "You need to reclaim your religion from fanatics. You've allowed "christians" to co-opt Christianity for their own personal gain and you've allowed them to hurt people in the name of God. Take God back."

He's right. You're being run-over by James Dobson, Pat Robertson, et al. And these hateful "ministers" command legions of very devout, but misled "christians" that will run to the polls and strip gay people of their rights faster than you can scream, "Glowry". They block anti-discrimination laws, block health care benefits, clog congressional phone lines to back hateful legislation and enact constitutional amendments to make me a second-class citizen (3 more states will likely enact "christian" sharia against me next Tuesday with the help of MILLIONS OF "CHRISTIANS" AT THE VOTING BOOTH).

So, don't tell me, SHOW ME. Just START by someone, unequivocally, denouncing James Dobson and "Fucos on the Family" as non-Christians. That would be a good START. I'm waiting...

Posted By: Steven | October 29, 2008 6:55 PM

I can sympathize Caryn... I believe you are taking the high road. The only people we can change is ourselves, with the grace of God. I realize there are multitudes on both sides who refuse to enter into dialog without first requiring the other to discard their own views and opinions.

I applaud your choice to put love before the step of even discussing such things. Showing you love and respect someone even if you disagree with how they live, perhaps especially then, can foster better conversation down the road. Even if they reject you once they find out you are firm in your own beliefs.

The right to hold your own view is often overlooked in the rush to be correct, religiously or politically. Rushing to hold forth love instead of views is truly a higher path. Accepting the person with love, whoever they are and what they've done.

After all, our Lord and Savior loved us before we loved Him, without ever compromising His beliefs. It's not an easy road, but we walk it with the best companion we could ever hope for.
Go with God Caryn!

Posted By: BP Miller | October 30, 2008 6:01 AM

Steven and Scott have brought to mind something I'm ashamed of from years past. Back in the college days, a notoriously hateful group whose web site name is too awful to even write here (just google Westboro Baptist Church) decided to come and protest at my college campus. A student GLBT group stood in silent vigil across the street from the awful protest by this bizarre group. At the time, I felt very conflicted. I was strongly against the message of the "Christian" protestors...but I also felt uncomfortable aligning myself with the GLBT group. I felt, at the time, that I might be compromising my values by appearing to support the GLBT student group. So on that day I did nothing. I sat in my dorm room feeling uncomfortable and sad.

I made the wrong choice.

Now, years later, I wish I could go back and do it over. I would have _definitely_ stood with the GLBT group. Why? My beliefs about the moral issues haven't changed. But I've realized that simply not participating in anti-gay hatred really isn't enough. Passive non-participation on my part did nothing to show the GLBT students at my school that God DOESN'T hate them as the church group's signs suggested. It did nothing to powerfully communicate how wrong, how terribly wrong, that church's supposedly biblical message was.

I really believe that we need to do more -- much more -- to demonstrate compassion, love, and justice to people who are mistreated b/c of their sexuality.

Caryn, you've born the brunt of Bob's anger and it's not fair that it was directed at you for things you didn't do. I also think that I'd probably find some serious areas of disagreement with Steve and Scott. But there is a challenge here in Bob's anger and in Steve and Scott's words that we all need to take seriously. Why do Bob and Steve and Scott feel this way? I can think specifically of GLBT students I knew years ago who probably felt the same way about me at the time. I hadn't done anything overtly wrong...I didn't hate them at all. But my silence and absence on that day -- in the face of overt hatred -- probably sent a much more powerful message to them than my other efforts to be a Christian witness ever did.

Posted By: Kelli Trujillo | October 30, 2008 12:26 PM

What an awful stereotype, I believe this is why religion can be so twisted. My personal relationship with god, is based around HE and I and nothing else and its a shame that so many people believe christianity to be something that it is not. I do agree that it’s upsetting the way some christians advertise their beliefs and im sorry that your friend now categorizes you as a type of person because of a preconcieved notion. I use the bible as a guidance tool as I know it is one truth god has bestowed to us on earth. God made all of us and has asked for one thing and that is to love one another. When “christians” berate and accuse others, insinuating that they are not accepted by god because of their beliefs, it truly upsets me. God created that person as well and knows the path in which they are meant to take and loves them regardless. As for the blogger, do not be sad, what happened, was said, and manifested from the situation is all apart of gods special plans for you and for your friend. Perhaps this is the beginning of some kind of recognition to your friend but we may never know. Do not feel sad, or upset about it though, because those feelings are not from god. Be gracious that you have the relationship with christ and god that you do and lean not on your own understanding because its obviously leaving you confused and upset. Dwell on the greatness and magnificence that is the unknown and perhaps you will see light of all of this in a few weeks. God Bless You

Posted By: Haley Ralph | October 30, 2008 2:01 PM

I am an openly gay man in Los Angeles. While I was in college, I met a funny, warm, compassionate woman who became my best friend. She stood by me as I came out to friends and family and was at my side at my first gay pride parade. I thought for all world that I had found the one person who defied the stereotypes the gay community has about Christians.

Two years ago, on the night before her wedding, we had our last heart to heart talk. She asked me when I was going to finally stop running around with men and find a nice woman to settle down and marry. I never told her this, but she broke my heart that night. I realized that despite our years of friendship, she really did not know me at all.

To her, being gay was a choice I had made and she harbored the belief that someday I would grow out of it. I did not "defriend" her that night, but our friendship was never the same after that.

I harbor no ill will towards Christians and I vehemently disagree with the way Bob treated you, but I can see where he is coming from. As a gay man, I cannot see myself being friends with another Christian person. No matter how well-meaning or loving they may want to be, I think our differences are too great for true love, trust and friendship to take root.

Posted By: Loki7329 | October 30, 2008 5:22 PM

I'm curious. If Bob was a pedophile who was angry at Republicans because they didn't accept him, would you have been as introspective? While it's true there have been many Christians who haven't acted Christ-like in their treatment of certain groups, is it also possible that we have allowed non-Christian groups to tell us how and what we should believe? After all, John the Baptist was imprisoned because he told Herod he shouldn't be sleeping with his sister-in-law. Was he being "intolerant"? Interesting that Jesus didn't tell John's disciples to tell him to be more "loving" to Herod (if he had perhaps John would have kept his head).

Posted By: dfb | October 30, 2008 5:56 PM

I am saddened by how often we as Christians try to justify unloving behavior under the banner of "righteousness". I'm saddened by Christians who justify promoting caricatures of politicians under the banner of "values". I appreciate how Eugene Peterson reminds us that we cannot speak the Jesus truth and recommend the Jesus life unless we do both of those things the Jesus WAY.

Posted By: Sue | October 31, 2008 1:51 AM

Great comments. I appreciate everyone's thoughtfulness on this. But a couple things:
1. Steven, I understand where you're coming from, but calling out someone as a non-Christian because they've hurt someone would be horrid. Talk about judgmental! So, that's not really the best place to start, I don't think.
2. DFB, not really jiving with your not-so-subtle attempt to align or equate homosexuality with pedophilia. As if heteros don't molest children..... But anyway, I agree that we can't let other "groups" tell us what to believe, but the thing here is being on guard for when our actions or harshness keep these groups from seeing a gracious Jesus.

Posted By: Caryn | October 31, 2008 8:54 AM

In reading Steve and Scott's commments, I wonder how much original research they have done about the Christian leaders named. Have they personally listened to them? Or are their opinions totally based on the characterizations by others.
I do not fully agree with any of those leaders, and sometimes I cringe at their choice of words--not necessarily because their words are wrong, but because I can see how they will be twisted.
Christians are probably leading the world's religions in care for AIDS sufferers. We are not so evil. Just look at the whole record.
As for the words of the bride the night before the wedding--too bad she didn't limit herself to encouraging a celibate life. Whatever ones' orientation, that is God's call on all who are not married to a person of the opposite gender.

Posted By: Carolyn | October 31, 2008 12:41 PM

Dear Carolyn,

I'm VERY familar with Dobson, Falwell, Robertson, et al. But, I'm not talking about their WORDS, I'm talking about their DEEDS.

Through their efforts and the fundamentalist organizations they run, they take in HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS PER YEAR. They use this largess to inflict pain and suffering on gay people in the US and other countries. Let's look at some examples, shall we?

"Christian" Sharia-California:
As of a couple of weeks ago, fundamentalist organizations (Fuc-os on the Family being the largest funder) has spent $25M to impose Sharia in that state.

"Christian" Sharia-Florida:
Fundamentalists are set to enact a constitutional amendment (Sharia) on Domestic Partnerships, Civil Unions and Marriage. Amount unknown, but someone is paying for all those TV, radio and print ads.

"Christian" Sharia-Arizona:
Over $7M has been spent so far to impose Sharia there.

I could go on and list every state in the Union as well as their hijinx in other countries. And if you want a full accounting of the MILLIONS OF DOLLARS being spent to inflict pain and suffering on other people, purely for political gain, I'm will to try it.

But, if I were to show you that your tithe dollars are being spent to deny civil rights, block health care benefits, block/repeal non-discrimination laws, and the like, would it change the behavior of fundamentalists? DOUBT IT!

As for your claim on Christians helping out AIDS sufferers in other countries, let's break that down between fundamentalists (ex: Baptists, Pentecostals), Mainline protestants (ex: United Methodists, Lutherans/ELCA) and Catholicism. Yes, the fundamentalists do send a token amount to eleviate suffering in other countries. They need to put something positive on their brochures and websites, don't they? But the real funds are from mainline Protestants and Catholics who are NOT fans of Dobson, Falwell, etc. BUT, while their not Fans and monetary supports of the fundamentalist preechers, they're not really detractors either. They're in the mushy-middle, not really criticizing them nor advocating for them. And frequently, that's a bigger problem than the religious right. They're just willing to sit idly by while Dobson takes his pound of flesh from the backs of gay Americans.

Posted By: Steven | October 31, 2008 7:13 PM

God hates all sin, especially in the life of a Christian. So see, we are not prejudiced in our beliefs, we are in submission to God. Homosexuality is sin, just like any other addiction and their is NO way to make it otherwise. Sex outside the realm of marriage is sin and two of the same gender cannot be married in the eyes of God.

Posted By: Robin Wiggins | November 1, 2008 7:56 AM

Robin Wiggins writes: "God hates all sin, especially in the life of a Christian. So see, we are not prejudiced in our beliefs, we are in submission to God."

OK...Let's try that out...

I CORINTHIANS 14:34, 35
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

.

Since you're "in submission to God" and "all sin is sin", DO YOU OBEY THESE SCRIPTURES? DOUBT IT. I bet you speak in church. I bet you in learn in church. I bet you attend a Bible study in church. I bet your husband doesn't instruct you when you get home on what you need to know.

BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS, DOESN'T IT? OBEY...or do we need another round of constitutional amendments to put you in your place? Do you need to feel the heel of Christian Sharia on your neck too? Remember, you're in "submission to God", right?

Posted By: Steven | November 1, 2008 2:01 PM

Whoever you know in life or whoever you have contact with ,is that person bible refers to as your naighbor which you can help out from his OR HER self destruction,self condemnation, self rejection base on pre-emptyness as a result of dirty indulgments of life which therefore demands for your extra effort of love by sending messages of encouragment to him always REMEMBER,HE THAT WATERS SHALL BE WATERED,AS YOU ARE TAKING YOUR TIME TO CHANGE OTHERS THE REWARD IS WAITHING FOR YOU Psalm 18 verses25-28 says to the mercful He shows Himself mercy.....

Posted By: Apostle john o.afolabi | November 2, 2008 8:45 AM

Someone wanted some words from "Dr." James Dobson. So not to disappoint, here are a couple of recent ones that show how stable the good doctor is.

From our friends at "Foc-us on the Family", here's a wonderful little treatise on what life will be like under President Obama (http://mwcnews.net/content/view/26346&Itemid=1).

Here are a few of Dobson's thoughts:

- In his first week in office Obama fires all 93 U.S. attorneys and replaces them with radical ACLU lawyers. Consequently, the Justice Department initiates criminal proceedings against nearly every member of the Bush administration.

- Same-sex marriage becomes the law and compulsory training in gender identity in elementary school results in the firing of tens of thousands of Christian teachers accused of hate speech for refusing to speak positively about homosexuality.

- The Bible can no longer be read on radio or TV because doing so amounts to hate speech, and students cannot pray in school . . . not even silently while sitting outside the principal’s office.

- A new law mandating equal time for alternative views on public airwaves drives Rush Limbaugh types off the air, essentially shutting down conservative [hate] talk radio in America by 2010.

Well, you get the idea. Dr. Dobson is truly a deep-thinking man, a scholar, and his thinking is as solid as the rock of Gibraltar. NOT!

Care for more doozies for the nut-jobs in Colorado Springs? Just ask...

Posted By: Steven | November 2, 2008 3:21 PM

Let me get this straight. Bob said that Christians had vile, prejudiced beliefs, then he turned around and made racial slurs against your husband. What a hypocrite.

I know you're praying for him, Caryn. He obviously needs it.

Posted By: P. | November 3, 2008 3:30 PM

I am a Christian heterosexual woman, yet I understand where Bob is coming from. No, he should never have gotten angry with you, especially since he didnt bother to ask you first what your thoughts were, but when one is oppressed, they're not thinking from the same standpoint as one who is not oppressed. He is probably very vulnerable in situations where others wouldnt be. And probably on a very regular basis. Trust becomes a huge issue, right from the start.

I am not condoning his behaviour towards you but I think its understandable.

I pray that Bob seeks God's face and His love, true love that only God can provide. Then and only then will he be able to trust people again.

Posted By: Tanya E | November 3, 2008 10:26 PM

There's an implied profanity in the terms "Foc-us on the Family" and "Fucos on the Family." While I too am no fan of Dobson, this terminology is not cool and discredits the arguments of those who use these words. Society right now has a huge problem with people on both sides of the left-right spectrum being terribly intolerant and disrespectful of those they disagree with.

Posted By: P. | November 4, 2008 9:49 AM

Dear P.,

What do you have a bigger problem with:

a) someone calling the other side a name?

or

b) the other side raising millions of dollars to strip me of over 1,300 rights by defining me a second-class citizen in as many state constitutions as they can get their hands on?

Surely, you don't equate the two.

Posted By: Steven | November 5, 2008 12:21 AM

Thank you for sharing your story, Caryn. Your experience and those of the people sharing on this blog have motivated me to prayer, which is a good thing! It causes me to experience a wide range of emotions on topics that are very important to all of us. Caryn, I hope one day you and Bob can reconnect, so he can see how different you are, and so you can even better understand his perspective. For myself, I'm reminded of this verse:

And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God. (Micah 6:8)

Posted By: hollie baker-lutz | November 6, 2008 10:28 AM

Dear Hollie,

You're motivated to prayer, and that's a good thing, but for the vast majority of Christians, it stops right there.

But while you and others are praying, please keep in-mind that a great many things are being done by Christians in the name of Christianity that are mean, hurtful, bigoted, and hateful. AND UNLESS YOU SPEAK UP, UNLESS YOU SAY "NO!!", UNLESS YOU LOUDLY AND CLEARLY SAY THIS IS NOT CHRISTIAN, HOW CAN I NOT THINK THAT YOU AND CARYN AND MANY OTHERS ARE THE SAME EXACT FOLKS THAT CAUSE (AND NOT END) PAIN AND SUFFERING?

And that, in a nutshell, is the problem with moderates in ANY religion. Take Islam. Try to get a moderate muslim to unequivocally denounce the events of 9/11. You basically can't.

On the other shoe, your shoe, try to get a moderate Christian to unequivocally denounce the antics of the Religious Right. It's not very likely to happen.

So, until the moderate Christans or moderate muslims dare to speak-up against their respective Religious Rights AND ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING, what do you expect?

Caryn and Hollie, just 'blaming the victim' and praying isn't going to 'cut' it.

In closing, Jesus speaking, "Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." Matthew 25:45,46

Posted By: Steven | November 7, 2008 9:12 AM

This story rings so true and is the same around the world. I became close friends with a guy at work, he knew I was a christian all along and I knew he was gay from the start, but he didn't know that I knew that he was gay. One day he commented to a mutual friend at work "do you think Tracey would still like me if she knew I was gay". I was so saddened at his response. I wondered what sort of reactions he had had in the past to give him that concern. I took him out for dinner and started teasing him about girls, who do you like, anyone at work that takes your fancy. When I got to offering to set him up with one of my friends he finally spilled. I told him I'd known all along, we had a great laugh and our friendship is still close. I am now an accepted part and even a confidant of the many gay people in my workplace. They all know my stand on their lifestyle but also know that I love them regardless and recognise that all are sinners, homosexuals are no different to anyone else.

Posted By: Tracey | November 9, 2008 5:38 PM

Where do you get off calling Bible standards hatred? Who gave you veto power on homosexuality over God’s word? From Genesis to Revelation God clearly states his stand on homosexuality. What arrogance to presume that you are more loving and compassionate than God? Gay marriage? Marriage is defined by faith (all faiths) and most culture as between man and woman. Find another term to define homosexual unions and partners. American & European Christians, you will be held responsible for the many gays who will be bewildered when they stand in judgement before God. It is cruel of you to mislead them with your “kind acceptance and love”. Love corrects. Love leads to Christ. Love does not ignore a loved ones path to destruction. James Dobson and friends have it right. You should support them not bash them. Your calling is not “love them in their sin” but to lead all to Christ.

What superciliousness before God that one should say “take God back”! Ask God to take YOU back!

Posted By: Elizabeth | November 11, 2008 4:28 AM

Caryn, Thanks for sharing your story on such a controversial subject. I have had a similar experience and its unfortunate. I can relate.

Posted By: Brenda | November 11, 2008 10:48 AM

Elizabeth writes, "Where do you get off calling Bible standards hatred?"

Well, because the Bible, written by man and not god, is a hateful book in so many places. And not just against gays, but ALL kinds of people: wiccans, slaves, uppity women, idolators (buddhists, catholics, hindus), people that pick up stick on a saturday, people that swear, hamites, infidels, non-virgins, etc.

Plenty of scriptures available to support my claims...just ask.

Yes, the Bible has some beautiful parts to it. The Sermon on the Mount comes to mind. Unfortunately, "christian" fundamentalists rarely, if ever, mention those verses. They seem to love a handful of the very hateful kind of passages.

Posted By: Steven | November 11, 2008 8:35 PM

Steven, name calling is never right, no matter who does it.

BTW, do you always read blogs for women or are there gay groups who scan Christian sites for articles on gays?

Posted By: P. | November 13, 2008 10:32 AM

What makes me most sad, Steven, about your comments is that you're actually going to the same place my friend Bob did. Instead of leaving doors open for caring discussion-- even among people who disagree with you-- you are slamming doors. Instead of discussion that may not ever lead to consensus, but could lead to understanding, you're reacting with a hate and rage that prohibits this.

Now I understand that this same hate and rage has been used against you---but you are falling into the same trap as those who have persecuted and failed to love you here.

I wish the conversation could be different. Thank God it IS in many other places. Go in peace, Steven.

Posted By: Caryn | November 13, 2008 12:28 PM

Dear P,

I didn't realize I called anyone a name. Sorry, if I did.

BUT, I would NEVER, EVER vote to strip a fellow American of ANY right, much less over 1,300 rights, by declaring my fellow American a second-class citizen. I realize you would never be so crass as to call someone a name (for shame), but would you will being to vote on a constitutional amendment to bar that same person from many significant rights? Rights that YOU already have and take for granted? In my view, the later option is FAR worse. Don't you agree?

Deat Caryn,

The same hate and rage has not been shown to me by fundamentalist "christians". It's far, far worse. Want proof? 30 state constitutional amendments plus another 15 other state laws. 45 states in total. All bar marriage, but most also stop civil unions and domestic partnerhips. Name one state, just one state, where fundmentalist "christians" are barred from marrying? You can't, can you? But it doesn't stop there. Fundamentalist "christians" also block basic non-discrimination laws, health care benefits, hate crimes laws, etc. Again, name one, just one instance in which fundamentalist "christians" have been legally subjected to the same level of hate? You can't, can you? Fundamentalist "christians" are covered by hate crimes laws in Federal law and all states with hate-crimes laws (most states). All fundamentalist "christians" are covered by non-discrimination laws. But you can't say that about gay people can you? And what group is responsible for this lopsided and unfair practice? Hmmmm....

But me "beef" isn't with just the fundamentalist "christians", but with the many mainline, middle-of-the-road christians that allow all this to happen without you ever lifting a finger and even mumbling the word, 'stop'. Which is worse? Hard to tell, isn't it?

Go in peace, Caryn. But reflect on this: am I part of the solution, or part of the problem? Hmmmm.....

Whatsover YOU do unto the least of these my brethren, YOU do also unto me. (But Jesus can't be refering to homos too, can he?)

Posted By: Steven | November 13, 2008 10:47 PM

Thank you, Caryn for your wise words. Reading this blog, and I don't typically read all the comments, my heart was breaking and more and more "stances" were being played.

Praise God He gave you the wise words to use. Thank you again!

Posted By: Jules | November 14, 2008 10:11 AM

Robin W-you are right. Sin is sin. It doesn't matter how you twist it, what illness you think causes it, or whether MSNBC tells you that you can't help it cause you were born with it-you will have to either choose to accept sin or walk away from it. It is what happens when you live in a fallen world, which we do. Steven-You need to spend time researching the Bible before you start quoting your scripture-specifically WHO those words were written for and for what use. Quote all you want-sin will still always be sin. It always interests me when someone pulls info out of the Bible to use as a quote without studying first the meaning and usage behind it. That is usually how people who think they know the Bible abuse it for their own gain. I pray for you Steven-one day you will have to meet your maker and explain to him why you thought your sin (whatever it may be) was so important you just had to choose it-He will not care your reasons, only that you chose your sin over His laws-what will your explanation be?

Posted By: Kelli | January 24, 2009 2:45 PM

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